Curse

Blackhawk · Nov 15, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

So long as we know exactly what we're up against in every single zone the level of difficult in PvE is never going to change. The only way PvE changes significantly is when the AI gets reworked or mechanics change, skill balances have very little impact on actual PvE play.

It's the mechanic changes that I'm more interested in like this Pet/Corpse business, as it has affected the way some PvE areas will now play, and I'm wondering if that's just the tip of the iceberg, where it'll be players themselves next who won't leave an exploitable corpse either.

Might sound daft, but altering that mechanic after years does seem a bit daft.

FireFox · Nov 15, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

It's the mechanic changes that I'm more interested in like this Pet/Corpse business, as it has affected the way some PvE areas will now play, and I'm wondering if that's just the tip of the iceberg, where it'll be players themselves next who won't leave an exploitable corpse either.

you're kidding right?

Chthon · Nov 15, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

No, not a chance in hell. You can only hope that they've learned their lesson and will design GW2 in such a way that Izzy can mangle PvP in any way he likes without affecting PvE.

Taurus · Nov 15, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Probably not, but there should be. Although I have to say all this whining and complaining is entertaining.

Entertaining indeed, especially because their whinning will lead em to nothing.

The balance in GW is based on how much a skill is used, how many times, how many players use it, and they have acess to that data ( maybe a bit on forum listening also ) .
The balance in GW is NOT based on whinning tennage kids threatening quit the game and "not buy gw2" if they dont like changes.

Again, no matter what you whinning kids say or do will change anything.

Blackhawk · Nov 15, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

you're kidding right?

Dunno, you'll have to ask Izzy

Savio · Nov 15, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You've got populations satisfied.

The only thing that happens is that a handful of PvErs don't get their builds nerfed. Is it really important to worry about a few PvErs who are using generally overpowered builds, who will move on to the next build (or ragedelete their characters) in minutes?

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 15, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I have an idea.

Get Izzy to make a Roleplaying character (actually you might need to get him to buy the campaigns; I'm rather doubtful as to whether his account actually has them unlocked, perhaps he only bought PvP editions) and play through all of the 4 Guild Wars games, including elite areas The Deep, Urgoz' Warren, Domain of Anguish, Fissure of Woe, The Underworld, Slaver's Exile etc (all of them in Hard Mode), and do it with all classes, WITHOUT running something pulled off of wiki, using Ursanway (that's for grinders, grind should not be present in Guild Wars), or editing the difficulty of said areas. Must spend at least 2k hours in PvE or complete the above task list, whichever comes last.

Must also spend time in PvE using the skills he nerfs in PvP so he can gain an understanding of how they affect PvE.

In short, have him consider PvE when he makes skill adjustments. Not asking that he abandons PvP... asking that he considers PvE in his adjustments.

/rant over

/cast Elemental Immunity -> Choose Element: Fire. *Concentration: Success*

Zahr Dalsk casts Elemental Immunity (Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell.)

Full Damage Reduction vs Flaming

FireFox · Nov 15, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I have an idea.

Get Izzy to make a Roleplaying character (actually you might need to get him to buy the campaigns; I'm rather doubtful as to whether his account actually has them unlocked, perhaps he only bought PvP editions) and play through all of the 4 Guild Wars games, including elite areas The Deep, Urgoz' Warren, Domain of Anguish, Fissure of Woe, The Underworld, Slaver's Exile etc (all of them in Hard Mode), and do it with all classes, WITHOUT running something pulled off of wiki, using Ursanway (that's for grinders, grind should not be present in Guild Wars), or editing the difficulty of said areas. Must spend at least 2k hours in PvE or complete the above task list, whichever comes last.

Must also spend time in PvE using the skills he nerfs in PvP so he can gain an understanding of how they affect PvE.

In short, have him consider PvE when he makes skill adjustments. Not asking that he abandons PvP... asking that he considers PvE in his adjustments.

/rant over

/cast Elemental Immunity -> Choose Element: Fire. *Concentration: Success*

Zahr Dalsk casts Elemental Immunity (Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell.)

Full Damage Reduction vs Flaming

I think you missed the part where mending works in pve

Savio · Nov 15, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Get Izzy to make a Roleplaying character

He has roleplaying characters. Do you want him to make another one?

Quote:

and do it with all classes

Oh wait, you want him to do more than most PvE players, and to spend an inordinate amount of time playing something in which the concept of balance doesn't exist.

Quote:

using Ursanway (that's for grinders, grind should not be present in Guild Wars)

There is no reason for grind not to exist. But that's another thread.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

He has roleplaying characters. Do you want him to make another one?
Can I get names? I wan't to mission with him!

Oh wait, you want him to do more than most PvE players, and to spend an inordinate amount of time playing something in which the concept of balance doesn't exist.
He shouldnt, but bTW there is balance in pve. called Animate Flesh Golem and Searing flames

There is no reason for grind not to exist. But that's another thread.

Ill sum up the grind thing

You do not have to grind to get ahead in pve, simply do quests and other things as how the game was meant to be played: If you have done all that and somehow fallen into all the gold sinks through mismanagement of your money, you can start another character- or vanquish with a guild. You will have fun playing with your guild, in Other MMO's it is not unreasonable for a guild to go monster slaying and it certainly isn't in Guild wars.

The only thing in pve that you may have to grind for, are Runes, or Weapon's with the mod's you want. This is in the case that you are turning your pve character to pvp. Otherwise it does not matter, and you do not need to grind at all, ever in pve.
I grind in pve, because I am to lazy to do quests, that is my choice. If you have no patience for grinding, please start a PVP character or join a good PvE guild in which case you can have fun while doing missions and such.

Grind is repetitive, if its fun and you don't find it repetitive, it won't be grind to you. So find a good guild or aspects of pve that you love. My favourite currently is the Tihark Orchard mission, I find it to be beautifully done.

End.

darkknightkain · Nov 15, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

/signed for splitting the two.

Aren't pvp players supposed to be the "better" players? Why can't they adapt themselves, but instead all they are doing is relying on the "divine interventions" (dev interventions) for anything they are having troubles to beat?

What's with the state of the current game pve players are the only ones getting the short end of the stick? Not once that Izzy/Ensign discussion even considered what beasts their arbitrary shakeups are going to unleash to the PvE world.

Savio · Nov 15, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

He has roleplaying characters. Do you want him to make another one?

Come to think of it, I don't know why I typed that, as I don't know the status of Izzy's account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

Why can't they adapt themselves

Adapting isn't the problem, it's the fun factor.

Quote:

What's with the state of the current game pve players are the only ones getting the short end of the stick?

What short end of the stick?

Chris Blackstar · Nov 15, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

More and more games these days are becoming PvP based, and when ever that happens, game Balance comes into play to keep the compitition competitive. Does not matter which game it is, GW or other. It's like this country now a days, we pay more for less. Proffesional PvP is big business and companies go where the money is, the problem with this is the average player will never be able to compete against proffesional PvPers. It's like me, an out of shape fat guy playing football against a pro NFL team, what chance do I have of competing, well we know the answer, absolutly none.

Game companies should seprate their games into two seprate branches, one for the profesionals, and another or the normal gamers. The problem is cost however as double the server capasity would be needed. In order to do that, they would pass the cost back to us, and you would see games going for 89 dollars instead of 49 dollars.

But to tell you the truth, I would pay the difference, just to keep it seprate, thus I would get what I payed for and not have to worry about it being changed every couple of months as to satify some need for competative balance.

In conclusion, I would like to send out a big F U to anet and competative PvP!!!

Crom The Pale · Nov 15, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

PvP and PvE will always be tied together in GW, its to late to fully disentangle them now.

GW2 will have a split that is more equitable to both sides, assuming I am reading posts from Anet correctly.

The real problem most PvE players have with this latest update is that pets no longer leave corpses. Those that do not use pets in PvP or play much of any PvP might not realize that pets there, when they die, do not reset your skill bar like they do in PvE. This makes a Necro/Ranger that uses his own pet for coprses viable in PvP, while its not very usefull in PvE. This update was to nerf that, for reasons that are really beyond me I must admit.

anonymous · Nov 15, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

The real problem most PvE players have with this latest update is that pets no longer leave corpses. Those that do not use pets in PvP or play much of any PvP might not realize that pets there, when they die, do not reset your skill bar like they do in PvE. This makes a Necro/Ranger that uses his own pet for coprses viable in PvP, while its not very usefull in PvE. This update was to nerf that, for reasons that are really beyond me I must admit.

It seems those that use pets in PvE and not in PvP won't realize that a pet dying in PvP does reset your skills. You've obviously never played a thumper, either that or your pet is immune to AoE.

My guess at the nerf to pet corpses is to stop minion masters from becoming the new energy engine for spiritway using the dead pets since spirits are no longer an energy engine.

arcanemacabre · Nov 15, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Those that do not use pets in PvP or play much of any PvP might not realize that pets there, when they die, do not reset your skill bar like they do in PvE.

I actually wasn't aware of that. So that's two big pet mechanics that are different between PvE and PvP. Question is: Why is this pet corpse thing not applied like those two other mechanics?

The plot thickens...

EDIT: Seeing above post, what is the truth? I've never had a pet in PvP before, so I have no idea.

Zinger314 · Nov 15, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Splitting PvE and PvP will kill Guild Wars.

Not splitting PvE and PvP will kill Guild Wars.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 15, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

The only reason people want a PvP/PvE split is so that they can have ridiculously overpowered crap to make blowing up drooling nincompoop monsters even easier.

No, go away.

Bryant Again · Nov 15, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

No, I'd much rather they keep them integrated. Just have a few less skills in GW2 and I'll be happy.

Chris Blackstar · Nov 15, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

The only reason people want a PvP/PvE split is so that they can have ridiculously overpowered crap to make blowing up drooling nincompoop monsters even easier.

No, go away.

Balance has nothing to do with skills being "Overpowered" Balance by definition is the changing of skills to keep several builds from being the primary build everyone uses and thus would stagnate the metagame, by changing verous skills by either nerfing or buffing them, the metagame remains cpmpetative, and no one build dominates as to take away the fun of compition.

Not an exact definition, but close. In pve the monsters get harder and the skills get weaker, but humans will always have the advantage, because we use 8 skills as to the monsters 4 or five skills, and most skills are just spammable ones.